Pizza oven incorporated into heater design

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This topic contains 9 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  David Wilcox 5 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #3066

    adkroot
    Participant

    I’m a stonemason planning my first masonry heater build for my new home, and though I’m familar with the black and white bake oven principle in masonry heaters, I’m wondering if it might be possible to incorporate a more traditional domed pizza oven into the design. The oven design I’m referring to where the oven gets fired from within and the vent is located above the door. Given the design function of the heater, am I correct in assuming that it would be disadvantageous to insulate the pizza oven? On it’s own I would insulate the core of the pizza oven to maximize its efficiency, keeping heat from bleeding out to the facade, but would this creat a problem with the efficiency of the masonry heater? Conversely, would a lack of insulation and the thermal mass surrounding the oven restrict the ability for the oven to reach maximum temperature efficiently? That is, would the masonry heater act as a heat sink during the off heating season?
    Haven’t seen any posts on this forum, so crossing my fingers that there’s just a whole crowd of heater builders chomping at the bit waiting for a question.
    Thanks, Daniel

    #3777

    dino.silobod
    Participant

    if it’s inside the heater than there’s no need for insulation if the temperatures are in range. Less thermal mass would result in faster heating and higher temperatures in my opinion.

    #3789

    norbert
    Forum Administrator

    Check out this design by Alex Chernov, which incorporates a pizza oven into an open fireplace:
    http://heatkit.com/html/bakeov22.htm

    You could use the same concept with a masonry heater, ie, with a closed door firebox at the bottom.

    Insulating the oven is an interesting concept, and there is no reason you cannot do this, for extra heat retention and higher temperature in the oven. However, you will need to add additional heat exchange after the oven, to make up for the lack of heat exchange from the oven itself.

    Be aware that you are building an experimental heater. You might want to hire an experience oven and masonry heater builder such as Alex to consult with, and if you build it, it would be awesome to document the build and share performance info ………… Norbert

    #3844

    Clancy
    Participant

    Norbert, what type of insulating material is shown under the firebrick hearth in Alex’s oven in your link? Thanks

    -Clancy

    #3845

    norbert
    Forum Administrator

    That’s Dow Corning Foamglas.
    It has fallen out of favor and most oven masons today use calcium silicate board under the hearth …N

    #3849

    Clancy
    Participant

    Thanks for clarifying about the insulation material. Is the main advantage to this design to get the most use from limited space – ie., a fireplace and an oven in a fairly compact footprint, making use of one chimney? Any report of how the oven performs (for pizzas) if a fire is going in the fireplace at the same time?

    #3850

    norbert
    Forum Administrator

    No feedback. You’d have to ask Alex Chernov, who built it.
    The open fireplace would not heat the oven that much, certainly not for pizza. You would not be able to use both the open fireplace and the oven at the same time.

    Note the two sliding dampers side-by-side to close off the fireplace throat for when you use the oven.
    You would fire the oven separately, directly in the oven chamber and it is basically the same as a pizza oven, except for where the flue exit is.

    If you used the fireplace, it would prewarm the oven. However, you wouldn’t get a lot of heat from an open fireplace, because of the extremely large amount of dilution air from the room. You’d need to put a glass door on the fireplace if you were contemplating integrating it with the oven somehow.

    In Alex’s design you basically have 2 appliances on the same flue, and can use 1 of them at a time. …N

     

    #3854

    Clancy
    Participant

    That makes sense. It’s a nice design! Thanks, Clancy

    #3907

    David Wilcox
    Participant

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    Masonry heater ,cook top , grill fireplace ,oven,under fire rocket
    <p class=”MsoNormal” style=”margin-bottom: 10.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: none; text-autospace: none;”><span lang=”EN” style=”font-size: 11.0pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Calibri; mso-ansi-language: EN;”><span style=”mso-tab-count: 8;”>                                                                                                                                </span>This is a prototype heater that I built in my garage. It is built on a steel pallet so that it is portable to move. The main function is heat for my shop. Then I wanted to grill my steaks and other meats.I wanted a cook top for frying and other cooking . <span style=”mso-tab-count: 1;”>          </span>I wanted<span style=”mso-spacerun: yes;”>  </span>an oven to bake breads and pizza’s .So I started designing and building .<span style=”mso-tab-count: 6;”>                                                                                       </span>The heater fire box has a double door for a good reason. There is 9″ of masonry mass under the fire box so the small left door is dropped down to fuel a rockett under the firebox to heat that extra mass with secondary air for batch loads plus it is a extra load door for the cook top and fuel door when cooking pizza . The firebox has 3 exits, top left for the cook top,bottom left for the rocket burner,and top right for the oven. All 3 exits are damper controled by homemade dampers.I can control where I send the heat. When cooking pizza I can send flames over top the pizza or pull flames away from the pizza by damper control<span style=”mso-tab-count: 1;”>    </span>.<span style=”mso-tab-count: 3;”>                                                </span>After the heat leaves the firebox it goes to a down draft channel then up to a bell above the small fireplace grill then exits to a 6″ pipe.There is also a bypass damper bypassing the down draft channel.This was added so if I want to add some heated bench later and it comes <span style=”mso-tab-count: 1;”>     </span>in handy for cold starts and burning with the door open.<span style=”mso-spacerun: yes;”>  </span><span style=”mso-tab-count: 1;”>            </span><span style=”mso-tab-count: 6;”>                                                                                                </span>This stove has a total of 6 dampers and bypass’s .The firebox ceiling is 2″ thick silica carbide 12×18 then a 2″ air space for cooktop exaust then another silica carbide slab for the floor of the grill which gets 450 degrees f and will fry some hog, that was a bonus cook spot. </span></p>
    <p class=”MsoNormal” style=”margin-bottom: 10.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: none; text-autospace: none;”><span lang=”EN” style=”font-size: 11.0pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Calibri; mso-ansi-language: EN;”><span style=”mso-tab-count: 1;”>                </span>The grill area/fireplace has Man grates in it for grilling meats and veggies .These are infrared grilling grates that are the best grate I have ever cooked on using wood or charcoal, no flare ups and you can lite a fire right under the grates and still no flare ups.</span></p>
    <p class=”MsoNormal” style=”margin-bottom: 10.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: none; text-autospace: none;”><span lang=”EN” style=”font-size: 11.0pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Calibri; mso-ansi-language: EN;”><span style=”mso-tab-count: 1;”>                </span>The facade is a solid brick with some lime stone accents and soapstone frame around the cook top and some limestone slab mantles held up with some rustic tree branch cast iron braket, some cast iron deer antler hooks for peels and grill tools ,the damper crank handle’s are from an antique online etsy store. </span></p>
    <span lang=”EN” style=”font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: ‘Times New Roman’; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;”><span style=”mso-tab-count: 1;”>                </span>Overall heater performs very good. Does good at heating a 24’x24′ grarage and very good pizza oven with the flame control damper <span style=”mso-tab-count: 1;”>  </span>allowing you to cook a slower thicker pizza or a faster thin pizza. Cook top will push 600 degrees f and be controled with the damper if need of a cooler hotplate. The rockett is nice for burning off the coals at the end of firing the heater. <span style=”mso-tab-count: 1;”>                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Wilcox Masonry
    </span></span>

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    #3912

    David Wilcox
    Participant

    I guess my copy and paste kinda sucks

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